Berry Bad Girls
When I was a student and didn’t want to go to school because I didn’t have my work done, I’d say I was sick. My mom would send me to bed and I’d stay there until 3 p.m., when, suddenly, I’d feel good enough to go outside. Or maybe watch Dark Shadows.
Two 12-year-old girls from the north part of the county here (Kitsap, WA) apparently didn’t want to face their teacher this week. They didn’t use the old “I don’t feel good” ruse.
They poisoned her.
Here’s a snip:
BAINBRIDGE ISLAND, Wash. — Two Bainbridge Island intermediate-school students have admitted to intentionally poisoning their teacher — with strawberry lip gloss.
Bainbridge police officers were called to Sakai Intermediate School Thursday, where they discovered a 58-year-old female teacher had been poisoned by two of her 12-year-old female students.
Police say the students knew the teacher was allergic to strawberries. They applied strawberry lip gloss to the teacher’s coffee cup and water bottle. When the teacher drank from the items, she immediately became ill. In fact, her allergy to strawberries is so severe, smelling them causes a reaction.
The teacher didn’t require hospitalization, but she did take some medication and used an inhaler.
Both students admitted they only intended to make the teacher sick and were taken to Juvenile Detention and charged with Assault in the 2nd Degree.
While a motive has yet to be determined, police say the students did not want to attend the teacher’s class and that one of them had forgotten to bring a signed progress report from her parent.
What happened to saying the dog ate your homework?
The girls will be in court on Monday. Apologists have been on the news saying that it was a “stupid” prank. The girls were “good kids” and “messed up.” I’m not so sure. It took cunning and cold calculation to do what they did. Something is terribly wrong when poisoning someone is your solution for not meeting your obligations.
I don’t think we should gloss over it.
March 31st, 2007 at 9:42 am
Is anyone else blown away that strawberry lip gloss actually contains strawberries?
Strange.
March 31st, 2007 at 9:48 am
Good grief. Whatever does the future hold for these two? How does anyone, of any age, even begin to think that could be a solution to a problem?
Take care
Millie
March 31st, 2007 at 10:03 am
Kellie, I thought of the same thing!
Millie, it is interesting that they poisoned her — which is very common among female perps. If they were two boys they might have beat her up or worse.
Gregg
March 31st, 2007 at 11:06 am
WOW, I remember Dark Shadows!
I wonder if the parents of these two up and coming criminals are going to be making excuses for them and whining about how everything has been blown out of proportion. If they were mine I’d be afraid to let them come home. If they will poison a teacher, they’ll do worse to a parent or a sibling.
March 31st, 2007 at 12:02 pm
You’re absolutely right Gregg. This should not just be “glossed” over. There was just one case in NC where a teen spiked his teachers water with Hydrochloric acid and all he got was six months in boot camp.
March 31st, 2007 at 12:07 pm
This is just another example of what happens when children aren’t taught to take responsibility for their actions. Instead of owning up to whatever they did, or didn’t do, they try to find a way of getting out of it.
Here is a perfect example of what Gregg was refering to…. Two 10-year-old boys and an older teen beat up a homeless man so badly he was hospitalized.
Here’s a quote:
“D’Amico said he fell into a wall after the 17-year-old punched him in the face, breaking the brick wall. One of the 10-year-olds then slammed a piece of the broken wall onto his face.”
March 31st, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Why did the teacher tell her class that she was alergic to strawberries? How likely was it that she’d be exposed to strawberries in the classroom, had she not disclosed her vulnerability?
March 31st, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Golly, perhaps she had a good reason for telling the kids. Maybe she told them prior to christmas to keep them from bringing her baskets of strawberry candy. Maybe they were discussing ice cream flavors prior to an ice cream party. There are any number of reasons a teacher would have told the class. I highly doubt she expected a 12 year old to try to kill her.
March 31st, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Those kids are not “good kids who messed up” they are evil, calculating little b**ches. I just need one aspirin and I die (stop saying ‘Get on with it!’). Those kids knew exactly what they were doing and I hope your justice system throws the book at the pair of them. Fiz.
March 31st, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Golly, I am not sure what your point is.
This is a little off topic but I wanted to mention it anyway, especially in light of Golly’s comment. I use to work with a lady who was alregic to petroleum. She could not even pump her own gas and sometimes weird things would happen that would cause her throat to close up like once at lunch we drove by a place that was tarring a roof. Tar has petroleum in it and she had to whip out her inhaler and I had to detour to the hospital because even with inhalers, some allergic reactions are so bad that the inhalers are only for temporary relief until they can get to a hospital. In this poor teachers case, she even said that the smell of strawberries can cause her to have a reaction, so shy wouldn’t she tell everyone? She has probably had several near death experiences with strawberries and didn’t want anyone unknowingly to expose her to them.
March 31st, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I could see a teacher casually mentioning the allergy to strawberries, particularly if one or more of her students happened to have an allergy which she was made aware of. I honestly did not realize that a strawberry lipgloss could be ‘real’ enough to cause a reaction. That’s kind of interesting.
In my opinion, the girls are culpable. This was no innocent prank. The girls may not have thought the gloss would cause the teacher real physical harm, but they knew it would cause some sort of reaction or they wouldn’t have done it. No, lip gloss is not the same as a gun or knife but neither are bees or peanuts which can cause severe allergic reactions and/or death to those who are allergic to them.
I think their punishment should fit the crime. I’m not exactly sure what that might be. But I would like for it to be something the girls have to witness in order to learn from their behavior.
March 31st, 2007 at 6:07 pm
This is NOT the teacher’s fault! E’s Mom is right in that telling her students could have been part of the class. Since her reaction was so severe to lip gloss, she probably told the students at the beginning of the year to make sure they don’t bring anything in the room that might contain strawberries.
I taught in public schools for several years. Once my car was vandalized and a few years later I was assaulted. Most teachers can tell you stories similar to mine. (If it didn’t happen to them, they know someone who was a victim.) I was not seriously injured but I became very fearful for my safety. After each of the incidents, I wondered what would happen next?
That teacher is a victim! There is lots of talk about crime vs. prank as far as the girls are concerned. But another teacher is now fearful of doing a job she no doubt loved.
March 31st, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Just have to comment on Golly’s remark… As an elementary teacher, I would hate to think that I had to be careful what I said to my students for fear they would somehow use it against me. Especially something like an allergy, which could certainly come into a conversation in many different ways! It almost seems like she is blaming the teacher!!!??! It also sounds a lot like the attitude of many parents these days…i.e. It can’t be my child’s fault, it must be the: teacher’s, principal’s, another student’s, cook’s, bus driver’s, or all of the above!
March 31st, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Gam said, “As an elementary teacher, I would hate to think that I had to be careful what I said to my students for fear they would somehow use it against me.”
This case shows you never can tell, doesn’t it? I’m not saying the teacher was at fault for telling the class about her allergy. But, if she hadn’t told them, they’d never have come up with the idea.
March 31st, 2007 at 6:54 pm
First off, I loved Dark Shadows too Gregg!
This was not a prank in my opinion. These girls intended to do harm to get out of school for a day (or more knowing that this could make the teacher very sick). If they were that stupid to not be thinking about the consequences of their actions, then this should be an educational experience for them.
In the school that I am currently working in there is a teacher on my floor with a serious allergy to perfumes. Some students intentionally sprayed cologne in the room to the point she was taken out by ambulance. They were suspended. I don’t know if anything legal was done or not. The teacher was out for several days. I see more and more kids not even having the capacity to see how their actions can hurt others when all they care about is getting what they want. Very disturbing indeed.
March 31st, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Golly, instead of blaming the victim (which you seem fond of doing, since you blame the girl for the dwarf groping, too) why not blame Law and Order for the episode where a man was murdered by a banana allergy. Maybe they saw that episode and it planted the idea. Heaven forbid blame be placed on these two innocent little girls.
So what if their actions were meant to cause harm to another person. It isn’t their fault, is it?
:rolls eyes:
March 31st, 2007 at 7:31 pm
“If she hadn’t told them, they’d never have come up with the idea…”!!! Grrrr…:/ I am sorry, but this REALLY irks me. Even though you say you are not blaming the teacher, you are still giving these girls an out, in my opinion! So you think they wouldn’t have come up with something else to do to get at the teacher? Do you believe that their “prankish” (I am using this word very sarcastically) behavior was only sparked by learning of her allergy? I think not. Also, I don’t believe that the teacher getting ill would have cancelled any classes. If I get sick, the first thing that is done is find someone to cover for me. It might have stirred things up a little, probably ruined that day’s class. I doubt that any other classes would be affected. Whatever their intentions, THEY are at fault and deserve ALL of the blame, in my opinion. No offense, Golly, but I can’t agree with your insinuations. Just had to get that off my chest.
I am also a Dark Shadows fan.
March 31st, 2007 at 7:34 pm
What’s the point in reading about crimes if you’re not going to learn anything in the process. Two bad girls put strawberry lip gloss on their teacher’s cup, knowing she was alergic to strawberries. The teacher had to take some medicine and use her inhaler. Is there nothing to be learned here beyond the fact that two girls did wrong?
March 31st, 2007 at 7:42 pm
This isn’t the first case of kids poisoning their teacher. Recall the boys that messed with a teachers drink recently? It was mentioned here when they mentioned this story.
I can’t believe this. They did this simply because they didn’t have a homework assignment. What is this world coming to? These girls were expelled. They damn well should have been.
The teacher is not at fault whatsoever. Teachers are told when students have allergies. If she has as bad a reaction as she does I would expect to make that common knowledge. To take advantage of that weakness makes the person who does even weaker since they couldn’t just stand up to her and say they didn’t have the assignment.
This story makes me sick. No one should have to worry about someone taking advantage of an allergy they reveal.
March 31st, 2007 at 8:04 pm
NO, I can’t agree that we should learn to be very secretive about any weaknesses we have so that a twelve year old child (or any age person) can’t take advantage of us. There may be lessons to be learned in this case, certainly, but I believe they are mostly lessons for the girls, NOT the teacher.
I do fear that many good educators may learn that it isn’t worth the stress, lack of support, and possibly fear that go along with the job and decide to get out of education. That is very sad.
March 31st, 2007 at 8:19 pm
They have a pretty similar case on MSNBC today about a couple of kids who laced a box of doughnuts with strong laxatives at school.
March 31st, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Maybe teachers should decide to not eat treats that they didn’t bring from their own homes. They should also not leave their beverages unattended. The second rule works equally well in bars, lounges, and speakeasys (for all you barhoppers out there).
March 31st, 2007 at 9:32 pm
Speakeasies? I’m old but I’m not THAT old!!
Classrooms are not bars. Schools should be safe places – not only for children.
Until we develop robots that can teach our children, teachers will continue to be caring humans. It’s the nature of the profession. The lists of what some people think teachers should NOT do are endless. Teachers do human beings. Personally, I think that’s a good thing. Drinking from a water bottle should not be a dangerous thing – especially in a classroom.
March 31st, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Ya know what? It makes me SICK that I’m not sure if I can make brownies for my son’s school. I still can at this point, but am sure somewhere down the line that I’ll be told only “store bought” items. It’s certainly not Leave it to Beaver anymore, and opinions like Golly’s is one of the reasons why. Rather than place the blame where ALL the blame is due, it’s somehow the teacher’s fault for mentioning her allergies. Sickening. These 2 girls should NEVER be allowed to attend this school again. This angers me on so many levels.
My son is almost 10. 4th grade. There was a little girl that was just found to have a “Kill List”, and enrolling other 4th graders to help her out. When the principal found out, she was “talked” to, never missed one damn day of school. What the hell has happened to us? We allow this kind of BS to occur, and allow it to continue by lack of absolute discipline? This outrages me. Don’t tell me the kids who poisoned this teacher aren’t totally at fault, that the teacher shouldn’t have told her students she was allergic to strawberries. That’s simply ASININE verbiage.
March 31st, 2007 at 10:02 pm
Someone with severe allergies HAS to tell everyone that comes in touch with them at any level.
There was a story in Readers Digest I believe that a woman who had severe allergies to nuts was at a wedding. Her husband made sure to get rid of the nuts that were at THEIR table, but she danced with someone later that evening who had TOUCHED a nut and went into anaphalectic (i totally murdered the spelling) seizures and almost died.
March 31st, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Wow. Some of you have poor reading comprehension. I never said the teacher was at fault. I never said the girls were merely pranksters. I never said teachers should or should not be allowed to do anything.
Yeah, schools should be safe places, but they’re obviously not. Am I displaying a bad attitude by suggesting ways teachers can avoid being victims?
You can place blame all day long, but that won’t help the next teacher whose food or drink is tampered with, will it?
It’s every man for himself nowadays. If you find yourself in a dangerous situation, will your first action be determining who to blame for it?
April 1st, 2007 at 6:34 am
““As an elementary teacher, I would hate to think that I had to be careful what I said to my students for fear they would somehow use it against me.”
Exactly. If you go into a classroom with that thought in the back of your mind, maybe a new profession is in order. I can’t even IMAGINE plotting against my teachers! Disliking some of them, sure, but taking things this far? It sounds like a great plot for a horror novel. Those nasty girls need help (and punishment) NOW and can you picture them in the future? None of their friends and family will be safe….anyone who stands in their way of what they want is liable to mysteriously die.
April 1st, 2007 at 7:27 am
A perfect example of the “NO RESPECT” that seems to be so pervasive among our youth today. These girls need much more than a slap on the wrist. Gregg is so right, this took planning, cunning, and just plain MEANness.
It’s difficult to say whether someone should or should not mention an allergy, one would THINK it should be totally safe to do, but when we have evil walking around us every day, it’s a dilemma. If I were this teacher, I’d get myself a real good lawyer and insist that these little twits be prosecuted but good. Of course, that may not be much.
My nephews school recently had a bunch of kids putting laxatives in everyone’s soda’s, etc. They got called into the principal’s office and recieved a tongue lashing. Big whoop.
Dark Shadows…. Barnabas….. WHOOOOOOO!!! Wish they’d have re-runs.
April 1st, 2007 at 8:05 am
FOX is supposed to be working on a new Dark Shadows series. Plans are for it to be out at the end of 2008, if they can get enough $$$ backing. If anyone can make it successful, FOX can.
I think what is/should be at issue now with these kids is that if they had murdered someone, they could, at the right age, be tried as adults. If that is good enough for murder, it ought to be good enough for lesser crimes. I think the days of pranks are gone.
April 1st, 2007 at 9:17 am
As one who just bought the newly released DVD boxed set of Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman, and as one who also liked Dark Shadows, it’s nice to see there are other folks out there who share my love for the classics. Lol
I think it’s sad that kids these days can be so damn mean. It would never have occurred to my friends and I to intentionally injure a teacher in order to get out of a test or homework assignment. The worst we ever did in those situations was skip school, forge a note from our parents or write our own hall pass to get out of class. But heck, that was high school…I don’t recall anyone ever doing anything like this in junior high. If I recall correctly, we were still a bit afraid of teachers in junior high at the age of 12.
Kim, the schools in my area do not allow homemade items. I made many a cupcake for my kids’ class parties, but that is no longer allowed. Treats have to be store-bought. Sad.
April 1st, 2007 at 9:21 am
I loved MH, MH as well. Where did you get the DVDs.
April 1st, 2007 at 10:20 am
Our school requires store bought treats because of food allergies. We don’t want a child that is allergic to a food product having a seizure. We know the ingredient contents in store bought treats. I agree, they are far less tasty.
I don’t know which is scarier — that the girls were mindlessly unaware that their stunt was dangerous or that they maliciously planned to harm their teacher. Either way, they achieved their goal and these girls are accountable for their choices. I really don’t care how the girls knew about her allergy because that did mean she should be abused by that knowledge. If my neighbor left their door unlocked, it doesn’t mean I can go into their house and steal their stuff. Scary to think we have become a society that justifies criminal behavior (and spiking the teacher’s drink with a toxic substance is criminal) by blaming the victim, but it happens everyday.
April 1st, 2007 at 10:43 am
Golly says:
“Wow. Some of you have poor reading comprehension. I never said the teacher was at fault. I never said the girls were merely pranksters. I never said teachers should or should not be allowed to do anything.” She previously said:
“Why did the teacher tell her class that she was allergic to strawberries? How likely was it that she’d be exposed to strawberries in the classroom, had she not disclosed her vulnerability?” Using INFERENCE, a reading comprehension skill, this does seem to imply that the teacher is at least partially at fault! She further states:
“This case shows you never can tell, doesn’t it? I’m not saying the teacher was at fault for telling the class about her allergy. But, if she hadn’t told them, they’d never have come up with the idea. Is there nothing to be learned here beyond the fact that two girls did wrong?” Again, implying that TEACHERS should learn a lesson from this incident.
“Maybe teachers should decide to not eat treats that they didn’t bring from their own homes. They should also not leave their beverages unattended.” “It’s every man for himself nowadays. If you find yourself in a dangerous situation, will your first action be determining who to blame for it?”
Golly…I certainly think an immediate action should be the proper punishment for the crime and perhaps seeking help (if that’s possible) for the perpetrators, regardless of age, so that a message can be sent to them and future like-minded “pranksters”! It seems that little is done to children in the many similar instances cited above. What is being done to correct these behaviors?
My whole point in this is that teachers, schools, and students should not be in this position of “every man for himself”. If proper punishment/(treatment?) is meted out perhaps we wouldn’t be in this predicament!
I will be interested in finding out what does happen to these girls in court, Gregg. Can you keep us poseted? Thanks for letting me vent!:)
April 1st, 2007 at 10:56 am
Golly,
“My whole point in this is that teachers, schools, and students should not be in this position of “every man for himself”. If proper punishment/(treatment?) is meted out perhaps we wouldn’t be in this predicament!”
I agree with that. You could even kick this up and apply it to greater society, as well.
April 1st, 2007 at 1:33 pm
http://newsfromrussia.com/accidents/2005/11/09/67260.html
13 year old middle school girl 11/05 dry erase board solution in coffee.
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/08/30/Tampabay/Tampa_student_alleged.shtml
16 year old special ed male 8/05- cleaning solution in teachers water bottle
http://www.readthebridge.info/node/884
2nd grade male put pills in teachers water bottle. 5/06
I thought there was one recently in my area:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1250740/
17 year old male puts acid in teachers water bottle. 3/07
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803E7DB1130F93AA25751C1A96F958260
2 sophmores in CT put toxic cleaning fluid in the teachers coffee. 9/99
http://www.local6.com/news/2546321/detail.html
16 year old male put eye drops in math teachers water bottle because he was having trouble with his algebra. 10/03
These are just a few of them via google.
April 1st, 2007 at 2:34 pm
DAMN…second graders??? Good find, Jeanne. I wonder what eye drops would do to you? I always thought they were just a saline solution.
April 1st, 2007 at 2:58 pm
This reminds me of a story that I tried to cover in a local school district here in Pittsburgh. I was a stringer at the time, and I heard that a teacher was poisoned in the one district that I was covering, so I had to find out more. I thought the best source for information was to talk with the school superintendent. I called him, and as an inexperienced reporter I was duped as the superintendent told me he would talk, but it was “off the record”. With that comment, I couldn’t report it, but he sure did talk.
The incident was with a fifth grader who was upset with his teacher because she yelled at him. He decided to poison her and used the clear fluid that is used to clean off the chalkless black boards. He put the liquid into the teacher’s water bottle. She really got sick. The only thing that happened to the kid was he was expelled for a year, but no one knew about it or who the fifth grader really was that did this act.
The teacher returned to class a few days later.
Needless to say, I never ever took anything off the record again. But, I sure told my story many times, never in print until today. Usually, when any of the parents complained at school board meetings about the teachers, I talked about the student. The parents were surprised as well, but at least they were told. It could have been considered hearsay, but at least I felt I got the word out, and they could take it from there.
I made sure every school board member knew about the incident. They were not even told about it, and some were really surprised. The district was so that many things were hidden from the board members. It sure was a mess!
The girlish incident doesn’t seem like a prank to me. The girls meant it, and hopefully they will not be allowed to get away with the “prank.” Kids have more knowledge about these things today than we give them credit for because they see this daily on television. It is cute until someone gets hurt. How stupid are we to think it is only a prank and an apology is all that is needed.
It goes deeper than that. It is not idle mischief. It is real, and get away with it once, what comes next? That is my question, what comes next?
April 1st, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Boy, y’all were really good when you were in school! Not me!! There were plenty of times when I was a kid that I planned terrible things to do to my teacher to get back at her for whatever had happened that day. Shoot her (I didn’t know a thing about guns) or push her off a cliff (I lived in Florida)… but of course I never did anything other than dramatize and I got over it.
These kids… such young ones at that… they MEAN to cause hurt. I understand Golly’s point (I think) in that we have to be careful that we don’t eat or drink anything we aren’t absolutely sure about. It’s quite a remark about our society when we remember not to walk away from our drink at a bar but now have to think that same way in our classroom.
What does come next? Suspend/expel the kids to be at home to watch TV where they get these ideas in the first place? Place them in special schools with other like-minded “pranksters”? Yikes.
April 1st, 2007 at 6:03 pm
It just amazes me how much things have changed since I was in school.
I had a teacher in 8th grade that made me cry several times but I -NEVER- would have thought of doing anything to her. There was a time she heard I was being called to the office to leave so she shot up there to meet up with my mom. She sat there and said “we are so disappointed in you”. Meaning her and my mom. My mom said “woah. You may be, but we are NEVER disappointed in our kids and we would NEVER say something like that to them, how dare you?” We were late to my doctors appointment because of her.
When I was younger I never told my mom about teacher service days or parent teacher conference days. First one she went to was 8th grade I think. She was a drunk in my young years.
In 3rd grade I was able to sneak out of my classroom, go all the way down the hall, call my mom at her hang out and ask if I could stay with a friend on crutches until her mom came to keep her company since we lived on a road basically across the street from the school and she said yes. I was able to get back into the classrooom without the teacher noticing it as everyone was standing by the door.
I stayed with Rachel til her mom came. I stupidly went past the classroom where the teacher, Rachel, and her mom were. My teacher thought I was there for an after school movie thing in the auditorium. She took me to the principal and told me to tell him what I told her and I said I didn’t remember. This is how small the town was…. the teacher goes “Call the A La Mode and get her mom on the phone.” I got chewed out when she got home because she got embarrassed.
I used to go over to that elementary school by myself all the time from 8 on. We were in such a small town we had 1 light and I was able to walk down to my softball games over a mile away from home without anyone.
In our high school we had a teacher that slept with 2 students that were brothers (pre Mary Kay) but nothing like these kids. I think since Columbine kids have become more brazen. If I had to get a detention slip signed or something I’d forge it.
These girls meant business. They weren’t doing it as a joke. if it had been some other flavor I might see it as a joke but because it was a flavor that the teacher was known to be allergic to it was done purposefully. They have been expelled but I think they ought to get criminal charges to send a message things like that aren’t taken as jokes.
As for taking something from someone else in a bar etc. I keep my glasses covered and I get my own drinks. It is sad we have to do that these days but Andrew Luster pretty must started that one. At work I use water bottles that are closed and never leave my sight.
Villi Fuu Laua (sp gregg?)’s brother went to a special school that you had to be interviewed by the other students before you were let in. It was for people that didn’t want to go to regular high school etc. They shared the trailer classroom space with us at my college. If you screwed up you only had 1 shot.
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:28 am
Wow,
These girls aren’t alone are they?
The difference between school children of my generation thinking ‘I hate you, I’m going to kill you’ about a teacher and today’s children is that now all they have to do is turn the TV on or power up the internet and suddenly the possibilities are endless. (A bit like that sentence, sorry.)
We had a year seven student (age 11) get sent out of class by her teacher, she set fire to the girls toilets in the tech block in retaliation! Punishment – 15 days exclusion and a visit from the fire department. She’d only been back a week when she was caught playing with matches!
We are happy to accept the information age, the ease with which we can access anything we want, the downside is that so can anyone else. Everyone is supposed to be equal these days and so there is no respect left. The fact that you have trained for years to get to where you are is unimportant.
If a teacher can no longer share things with her class then she may as well be replaced by a computer, if a child can no longer be trusted to respect that information then maybe a windowless room and a monitor is all they deserve.
I don’t know what the solution is but I do know that even though I work in education myself I home school my daughter.
Take care all,
Millie
April 2nd, 2007 at 5:14 am
Okay,
I will probably piss some people off with this, but here goes…
The problem with many children in this society is lack of responsibility on the parents part. Children don’t say Please and Thank you or Excuse me anymore because their parents don’t set the example. They don’t take responsibility because their parents don’t take responsibility. There comes a time when a child knows the difference between right and wrong, which is usually long before the legal age of 18 (in the case of being tried as an adult). If parents would stop making excuses for their children by allowing them to say it was a prank we would see alot less of this behavior. What I am reading here is a small percentage of parents who will accept the knowledge that their child did wrong. Unfortunately that is not the norm in our society.
I have thought about home schooling for the very reasons that all have mentioned. As I looked at all the pros and cons the main thing for me was that it is a social environment that children need and should learn from. It is my responsibility to make sure that my child knows what the acceptable behaviors are regardless of what other children are doing.
April 2nd, 2007 at 7:40 am
I think 12 is pretty young. I do think the girls need a stiff consequence. They may not have grasped the true cause and effect of their actions. They sound like a couple of edgy kids, who went way too far.
April Fool’s Day, brought about several pranks in my household. Some where cute and funny, and a couple were “what the h*ll were you thinking” type things. I really think it’s the age and that some kids don’t understand cause and effect as easily as others.
And I think it’s great that their peers thought what they did was wrong and turned them in.
April 2nd, 2007 at 8:14 am
I hate to interject this OT info but, Leah, I bought the Mary Hartman set at Borders. Lol It’s on sale for $22.99.
April 2nd, 2007 at 8:25 am
As for the Visine thing. Most people think it will cause diarreah, at least I did when I was a bartender, and know a few bartenders that actually did spike a drink. Thank goodness it was probably only a couple of drops because I didnt know the REAL side effects.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/visine.asp
April 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 am
Make that THEY lol. I admit to being tempted though.
April 2nd, 2007 at 10:31 am
Excellent link Melissa. I didn’t realize that eyedrops would do that.
A,
I agree that 12 year olds do not understand the actual cause and effect of certain actions. They do however, understand that putting something in someones drink, especially if they are alergic to it, is wrong. I wouldn’t consider this a prank. It was malicious. They did it to cause her harm. To me a prank is putting a fake snake in the drawer of the teacher’s desk (especially if they hate snakes). No one gets harmed and the kids get a good chuckle-that is a prank.
April 2nd, 2007 at 10:32 am
Oh yeah, I forgot to say, the article says both girls KNEW that it would make her sick. They even admitted that that was the intended outcome.
April 2nd, 2007 at 11:31 am
Wow, and I went to Catholic school, with Nuns who were absolutely insane with corporal punishment and the like, never did anyone seek revenge upon them! Why, I don’t know. (just kidding)
My Mom is a retired elem school teacher and I don’t ever recall anything of this nature happening to her or to any other teachers that she taught with. I wonder what she thinks of this? I think they should force these girls to go to an alternative school, one that their parents have to go out of their way to get them to and from each day. If I were this teacher, I would not want these girls back in my classroom!
April 2nd, 2007 at 11:41 am
Yeah–I hear ya TXMichelle. I’m just not sure what this all (cause and effect) means to a self-centered, immature, edgy pre-teen.
My son has a teacher that has made it clear to her students (through a letter that they had to sign), that she is allergic to AXE deodorant. But to a child (teen) what does that mean? That she doesn’t like the smell? That she’ll leave and they’ll get a day long reprieve from her? Or that she’ll have a brush with death and need to be rushed to the ER? The answer is I don’t know… And the letter didn’t really say. But as an adult I can conclude that she must have a solid reason for telling us this. To a kid (especially one on the fringe), this means I think I’ll go get some AXE deodorant and see what happens.
Just my take on kids–and not all of course.
And of course there are really messed up kids that turn into evil adults. I’m just not ready to say that this lip-gloss incident speaks of the cunning evil that some say it does.
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
You are right A. I wouldn’t say cunning evil…I just feel they knew they were wrong. To make it out to be just a prank that should be punished with a slap on the hand is what is wrong to me. I am not sure how I would punish my own child if one of them were to do this to be truthful. That is kinda funny about the AXE deodorant! You have a great point in that to a teenager it would be a chuckle just to find out what it would do.
I am not sure how this should be punished but I think that the fact that they intended to make her ill is the main point and the one thing that should make the punishment more severe.
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Well if this were my kid, here’s what I’d do: lecture (the-what the h*ll were you thinking?!?? one), a serious grounding and long term loss of freedoms, and I’d help her find some way to make restitution (starting with an apology letter).
I’ve already let my daughters know that I’m free and available to be their locker partners if need be. Of course that right there nips most things in the bud. It seems noone (in this age bracket) wants mom to pal around with them at school, lol.
April 2nd, 2007 at 12:41 pm
OMG that is funny! I did have to do the WTF were you thinking lecture with my oldest boy when he shot my second oldest boy in the face with a bb gun. That is definately one of those senarios where they just don’t comprehend the outcome till after they’ve done the action. Mind you my boy is only ten. Still he knew he was in big trouble when he came sulking up to the house to fess up!
April 2nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Lol TxMichelle, Your bb gun story is exactly the type of thing I’m thinking of in this whole thing. It sounds so bad, but really it’s a ten year old having a moment, without thinking about what happens next.
April 2nd, 2007 at 2:56 pm
I guess I was a little overly emotional in my post. It’s just that we have some teens in the neighborhood right now that are making our lives miserable, and if the parents would just do something about it, like say, not let them roam the streets at midnight, it could go away.
I did read more into Golly’s comment than I guess I should have. TXMichelle, you’re completely on the mark. It’s all about parental guidance, discipline, all of these things, that kids today are NOT getting. I sure hope these berry girls get some discipline, that’s for sure. Otherwise, they’ll just do it again.
April 2nd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
I saw in today’s paper that two teens have been arrested in Florida for pouring Febreeze in their teachers soda. I’m sure the culprits will be punished. No lesson to be learned here by any teachers.
April 2nd, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I agree with TXM 100%… It’s up to the parents to teach their kids, not only responsibility, but the cause and effect of their actions.
Last week at my daughters school (she’s in the 6th grade – 11 & 12 year-olds) her friend got suspended from school for a couple of days. For what you ask? Pinching another classmate. Now, while this is painful to another person, is it really something to make that big of a stink over? I could understand detention, writing an apology letter, etc. But suspension? Isn’t that taking it a bit far? Or am I wrong?
With these girls in the story, they should be punished – definately. But, personally I don’t think expulsion – or harsher punishment – is the answer. Suspension, and other duties would be more effective.
April 3rd, 2007 at 7:01 am
Nik, I would first ask where you got your information on why the student got suspended. Administrators don’t usually discuss their discipline cases with other students or parents. You may not have all the information. Secondly, did the “pinch” draw blood or leave a deep bruising? If so, then that may be why it merited a suspension. Also, there may have been other things contributing to it, such as threats. JMHO.
What the “berry bad” girls did was assault in my opinion and they could/should be eligible for criminal assault charges.
April 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 am
TxMichelle- you are right on about the parents. I mean look at me. I didn’t have a lot of supervision as a child but as my mom got dry I got more supervision and had perfect attendance all 4 years of high school. Where are the parents of these kids? Should they possibly have something happen to them?
The girls- they knew she was allergic to strawberries and intentionally did this to make her ill. This to me could be regarded as harsh as attempted murder. I can’t believe they had a lip balm that actually had strawberry in it! I didn’t think any of those actually had the fruit in it.
When I was in school- we were the 2nd graduating class of my high school. They had a 0 tolerance policy for weapons etc. How was this played out? We had a kid in the district that was doing a presentation having to do with native knives or something. His history teacher knew this and supported it. He shows up to school with the presentation and is immediately expelled.
Then we have a kid that was working on his car before school and was working with a knife. He was in a rush and chucked the knife in the car to head out to school to be on time. During the day the rent a cop saw it in plain site while surveying the parking lot. Kid got expelled.
I remember a kid getting expelled for giving another student an asprin. We weren’t allowed to have medicine in school on ourselves and to give it to another who could be allergic was a big issue. In GA we didn’t have nurses we just called home if we felt bad.
I think you guys are right that TV, movies, and the like have played a HUGE part in the way kids act these days. I tell people about this case and they are like WHAT? first they can’t believe the lipbalm actually had strawberries in it, secondly they can’t believe 12 year olds would do this to get out of a homework assignment.
I just re read the article and see they were taken to detention and charged with assault in the 2nd degree. I think it should be higher than that. they knew what they were doing.
April 3rd, 2007 at 9:48 am
Jeanne- They’re TWELVE. Not in high school. Barely in Junior High.
I respect your opinion, but I find the “they knew what they were doing” thing to be completely relative to a TWELVE year old psyche.
April 3rd, 2007 at 11:26 am
Jeanne, I agree that they knew what they were doing. I agree that they should be charged with assault.
“TWELVE” year olds can have evil intent, as shown throughout history. This act does not portray a “normal” 12-year old psyche. Thats the whole point. Thats why everyone here is saying “we never would have done that. That’s because we were normal, level-headed human beings at that age. These girls obviously are not.
A slap on the wrist, TV taken away and an apology letter is NOT the solution here. These girls should be permanently separated from each other (different schools) and begin rigorous therapy after they’ve completed whatever the judicial system gives them – which may not be much if anything (a big mistake).
If the strawberry lipgloss did not contain strawberry… if the teacher did not get sick from it… what would they have done next? Maybe nothing. Maybe something far, far worse.
April 3rd, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Jeanne, I’m trying to be as nice as possible. Could you please not turn every single situation around and relate it to yourself?
This is why you are consistantly banned from several websites. They are indeed public forums but eventually, the readers get annoyed as I am getting here. We frequent the same message boards so it’s almost a relief when you get kicked off but G & M are too nice to do that.
You seem like a really nice person and I don’t want to discourage you from posting – it is, afterall, a public forum. I am just tired of hearing about YOU. YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU!! Enough already.
Thanks.
April 3rd, 2007 at 12:50 pm
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
April 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
PJ– I would love to hear your definition of “normal”.
April 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Gee, EIE, last I checked Matt and Gregg were doing an awsome job managing THEIR site. Maybe if you have personal issues, as you do with others on other sites, you should email Matt and Gregg directly.
April 3rd, 2007 at 5:48 pm
EIE is right!!! This is about crimerant issues not herself.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Oh stop it. Jeanne isn’t hurting anyone. If you don’t enjoy her posts, skip them. If you want to insult her or yap at her, take it to a different locale. Try the group on myspace, or her personal email which is accessible by clicking the link associated with her name. She doesn’t say anything insulting to anyone and she doesn’t post twenty comments a day. She is causing no harm.
April 3rd, 2007 at 6:34 pm
AMEN, Miss James. Matt and Gregg can handle THEIR site. Please email them if you have an issue with ANY poster on crimerant. This is their site and they have all our email addresses if they don’t like our posts. Please mind your own business and don’t come here to start crap like you do on other site.
April 3rd, 2007 at 7:52 pm
Well, I would have to say that is someone from either Ann Rule’s website or the Java Ring clique of which I don’t want anything to do with anyway.
Just ignore them. Eventually they will go back to their own site and make posts laughing at it all etc.
Btw, when I logged on this evening I found this little nugget.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/school.sex.ap/index.html
12 year olds don’t know what they are doing? I beg to differ especially given this news piece. kids having sex in a classroom. Elementary kids.
April 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Hey Gregg, given that you opened the topic up saying we shouldn’t “gloss it over” (nice play on words
) What do you think a good punishment or action would be about this?
Also I know I’m gonna get thwapped for this but um what is/was Dark Shadows? *ducks head to protect it*
btw, I put my contact info out with EVERY post I make. Feel free to mail me if you have a problem with my posting. I just noticed our mail doesn’t get published so jeanne@tutts.org is my e-mail. I have a feeling you already know that whomever you are but there ya go.
April 4th, 2007 at 3:36 am
Jeanne, I looked up the CNN 12-yr-olds “having sex” article – I’m sure this question occured to you as well:
“Was it sex, or was it rape?”
This is beyond appalling. I’ve always said it would be impossible for me to home school my kids, but this would drive me to it. Ye gods.
Here’s the other thing that occured to me. Obviously these kids get to see lots of tv and movies they shouldn’t. But this attitude to sex is in alot of the stuff our society deems to be ok on music videos etc. It made me think this is the kind of thing that makes our Muslim ‘neighbors’ in the rest of the world hate the US, that makes them call the US the DEVIL. For them, this defines US. The music and film industry in their excesses have more control over our kids than we do.
April 4th, 2007 at 3:45 am
Oh yes, and thx Melissa for the snopes link about Visine. I had no idea it was so poisonous. Some of those stories were frightening – esp. the Whole Foods one. Protect your drinks everyone!
April 4th, 2007 at 6:34 am
Lurking Lady,
You are correct that this “defines” us to them. Still I did notice in every report about Saddam and his sons they liked sex with lots of women, they had big ol’ American cars, they wore western clothes, and they killed in the name of their god. So there it is we can either have freedom of speech or a bunch of fanatics killing each other over religious views. Besides this doesn’t just occur here. With access to the internet and media it is everywhere. Our children are much older now then ever before. Not just in our country but in the world. The kids having sex in a classroom is NOT the norm otherwise it wouldn’t have made the news. The sad thing is it will be the norm sooner then we wish.
April 4th, 2007 at 6:43 am
Jeanne, Dark Shadows was a soap opera in the late sixties. Dan Curtis developed the gothic soap based on a dream he had. To keep the soap from going under he took out all the stops and introduced Barnabas Collins as a vampire. Google it, there is lots out there.
As for 12 year olds having evil intent, I don’t know if they are evil or they just aren’t taught limits anymore. I work in a middle school, and I can see that happening here very easily. Kids these days are all about the moment, and me, me, me!
April 4th, 2007 at 6:51 am
Absolutely Sibby! I have to deal with it with my own children learning from other children in school all the time now. I drive them crazy because I tell them all the time (they say it with me now) “these are privilages not requirments!” lol.
April 4th, 2007 at 7:15 am
Oh, and we already have had the kids having sex in the halls thing. Sadly enough, that’s old news here.
April 4th, 2007 at 7:30 am
Sibby,
Are you in an inner city school? Just curious how far spread this attitude is. Would you say that small town children still have the small town values?
April 4th, 2007 at 7:54 am
I am not inner city, but a suburb of Washington DC. Our kids do act as if they grew up in the inner city, and many of them may have.
I don’t know if small town kids still have “small town” values. I have never lived in a small town. If they don’t, it is because of the widespread effect the media has. Just look at MTV and South Park! JMHO.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I agree. I grew up in Long Island and most of the kids there have that same mentality. As if they all grew up in Brooklyn or the Bronx. There are several shows that I cannot stomache. Ed, Ed, and Eddie-South Park and few others. Just like you said they are just obnoxious and not funny. They teach children bad manners more then humor.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:28 am
I let my kids watch some stuff like that growing up (like the Simpsons)but I used it as a spring board for discussion, like why that kind of behavior is not allowed, and that the reason it is funny is because is it stuff they weren’t supposed to do. It worked with my kids, but I imagine that isn’t always the case with others. Too much of that kind of stuff desensitizes people to that sort of behavior. Then is isn’t so “bad” anymore, so they have to up the ante to worse behaviors. Escalation of the decay of society, IMHO.
April 4th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
I’m not sure I buy that 12 years old have evil intent-at least, not solidly evil intent. Simply because, while I think that these girls understood the consequences of their actions conceptually, they didn’t understand them literally.
For example, you can tell a 12 year old girl that you will “die from strawberries”, and they may understand it superficially, but they have neither the emotional maturity or the life experience to understand it realistically. In other words, death is a concept, not a reality, to someone that age.
So, malicious intent…possibly, but, then, how malicious is it when they don’t fully understand?
April 4th, 2007 at 12:51 pm
they admitted they knew it would make her sick and get them out of the missing assignment. I think they had to understand. It makes me wonder what made them come up with the lip gloss. I mean, they could have been obviously obnoxious about it and brought in strawberries knowing she can’t even smell them or she’ll be very ill. They chose to do something less visible on purpose so it would take a while for them to figure out what was making her sick and give them the time to do the assignment.
With all that is on tv these days I wouldn’t put anything past a kid of any age.
April 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
I said they understood. But, they may not have understood in the way that an adult would understand. Again, conceptual vs. literal.
April 4th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
I agree with you Rae. I don’t think they really understood that she could have died from it. I like how you stated the concept vs. literal because, personally, I think that is the most accurate way of putting it.
They knew she would get sick, but that’s all they had intended. And while the intent to harm was there I just don’t agree with some that have stated that they are *evil* for doing this.
Michelle – I grew up in two pretty small towns, in two different states. I spent most of my teenage years in one city but kept many friends in the other. I have to tell ya, I think small town kids get in more trouble than those from a big city. The cause is boredom.
In a small town there’s nothing to do but cause trouble, drink, do drugs, etc. Half the ppl I grew up with were serious addicts and/or commited some type of crime in their younger years. While this may not be the norm for *all* small towns, I think it is fairly common.
April 4th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Rae- Very well explained.
I think there are two types of people commenting on this post; Those who have experience with 12 year old kids, and those that don’t.
All minds do not think and rationalize in the same way. And there is a reason that accountability has somewhat of a sliding scale in our judicial system.
April 4th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
That is one of the issues I have with trying children as adults. Now that the legal system can try children as adults, it doesn’t really matter what their intent was or if their understanding of their actions is evil or not.
April 4th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Leah,
I initially thought the worst of these girls. As you have read and several others pointed out and of which I agree. I think they did do something with malicious intent but didn’t fully grasp the consequences of their actions. However there is a big difference between these two girls not seeing the affect of what they did and say for example the two boys in England that tortured the little boy to death who were tried as adults. I am sure when they heard the screams and crying they knew full well that they were wrong and understood the pain caused by their actions. So in some cases I feel that even a 12-13 year old should be tried as an adult and in other cases it is not warrented. I never felt that they should be tried as adults anyway just that the punishment should be severe enough due to the fact that they admitted doing this maliciously.
April 4th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Ya know, when I lived in Vegas a couple showed up (new to the church) and stood up and requested that everyone in the congregation not use perfume or purfumed items because the wife was so allergic. Not putting on perfume is pretty easy, but there was this issue of deodorant, shampoo, conditioner, lotion….. List goes on and on. The fact that she was able to stand up in this church when everyone was obviously using these items seemed weird to me. And I was 20 at the time.
To me at the time, I thought that she was exaggerating. Which I still think was the case, considering that at their first visit there were plenty of people wearing perfume.
At TWENTY I was kinda wondering, though I never pushed it. I never had allergies until I hit 21 and still none of mine are deadly.
I am thinking they thought it was a prank gone wrong.
YES, it was assault. But did they REALLY know how bad it could have gone if they are allergy free themselves?
April 5th, 2007 at 11:25 am
I understand what you are saying Michelle. My point is that we don’t really have any control over our children when the government is deciding at what age they are thinking and acting adults, regardless of their childs age. Hopefully, they will take everything into consideration when they decide how to proceed with this case.
April 6th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
and apparently I found out on Bill O’Reilly last night that there had been an incident the week before the 2 sets of 12 year olds had sex in their classroom of the same exact thing just one couple in another school.
12 year olds these days are a lot different than 12 year olds say even 10 years ago. There has been a lot of changes in tv, movies, radio, and internet in the last 10 years to make them more aware of stuff.
April 8th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
The kids should be sentenced to time in Juvenile Hall and community service and the parents should have to pay the teachers hospital bills and pay the teacher for all the days she was absent from school. If they did not pay, then their paychecks should be garnished. If they did not have jobs, then they should lose rights to social services for a period of time. If we want things to change, we can’t just shake our heads and wonder “what’s the world coming to”. We need to hit people where it hurts, their wallets. If they aren’t going to raise their kids to be upstanding, functioning citizens, then they’ll have to contribute some other way.
April 8th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
very well put Lisa.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Quite frankly, I don’t understand half the comments here.
I was born and raised on Bainbridge Island, live minutes from.
This is a clear case of a couple of little monsters not taking ownership of their actions. For every action, there is a reaction.
Bainbridge is full of a lot of snots these days (young and old), you could not pay anyone that was from there and really loved it to move back. It will never be the same.
Kids being raised with bottomless bank accounts and not rules, at least not rules that involve common deacency (sp.) and respect for parents much less themselves. They know not the value of a dollar.
I am very embarassed of their actions, and I really feel for the teacher.
I wonder if these kids will ever grow up before it is too late.
April 20th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Golly, if these two adolescents had been raised with one ounce of decensy (sp again) it wouldn’t have mattered what the teacher had mentioned or not. It shouldn’t matter to people that have intelligence and a conscience!!! What was done was wrong, no two words about it!
April 20th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Also Golly,
It’s every man for himself nowadays…That is a very negative view (my own opinion). I refuse to look at life that way, and I raise my kids with higher ideals, dreams, hopes, and life full of integrity (among other good things).
One has to let those around them know of health issues, how else can they be protected/safe/respected?
If someone has allergies, others should respect it!!! Period!!! Only evil takes advantage of weaknesses!!!
April 20th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
TXMichelle and Nik, I enjoy reading and agree with your views.
I had my oldest in a school district just outside DC for four years. Totally different world, not nice and respectable like small town. of course that is just my experience and opinion, but I won’t ever put my kids back in the same kind of attmosphere.