A Singular Sensation: Other BTK Victims?
Crime Rant 
Guest Blog by Stephen Singular
[CR Note: Stephen Singular, author of UNHOLY MESSENGER: THE LIFE & CRIMES OF THE BTK SERIAL KILLER, has written an incredible, detailed account of Dennis Rader’s life and crimes. Check out Stephen's exclusive CR piece that poses the question: How many more has BTK killed?]
On April 12, 2006, eight days after UNHOLY MESSENGER was published, I appeared on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.” While Cooper devoted an hour to the BTK case, my website address flashed on the screen. As soon as the program ended, e-mails started rolling into my website. One came from a truck driver who claimed that many years earlier Dennis Rader had dropped to the ground in front of him and began barking like a dog. Another was from a woman who’d been propositioned by BTK in the mid-1970s, right after the Otero murders. Rader told her that the cops had a “real mess” to clean up at that crime scene. These were interesting tidbits, but then something startling happened.
In February 2005, Rader had confessed for 32 straight hours to the Wichita police and a few months later on national television he’d confessed again, offering the public more facts about being a serial killer than anyone before him. Then, at his sentencing hearing, the prosecution revealed more information about the murders and showed stunning photos of him dressed as a woman, tied up with black tape or plastic, and swinging from a tree in a Kansas forest. Other images were of him in drag, faking his own hanging in his parents’ basement. After listening to him talk and looking at these pictures, you felt you knew just about everything you could about this case and this killer. But was that really true? Had he left out some of the most important parts of his story? And was he responsible for other murders?
On April 14, I received an e-mail from a Wichita native (“Hank”) who was about the same age as Rader (60). More than 40 years earlier, Hank had met a young man known only as “Butch” at Wichita’s downtown bus station. Butch was there to have sex with older men for money. As the two young men talked, Hank felt that Butch was very confused about his sexuality and seeking a human or emotional connection that was hard to come by in these circumstances.
“I think he was the first man I ever had any feelings for,” Hank told me. “We both felt that way about each other. He wanted to break away from his strict upbringing and be naughty and he saw the bus station stuff as a way to do that. He didn’t have anybody to talk to about the gay issue, other than the guys at the station. If he’d had someone else to speak to about this, he might have been a different person. He was just a mess of contradictions: I want a family and marriage, but I hate women. I’m gay, but I’m not gay. He hated gays because he couldn’t come to grips with himself.”
BTK, as everyone knows, liked to tie up people with pantyhose and slowly strangle them to death. In the autumn of 1963, Butch asked Hank to go to a Halloween party, with Hank dressed as a woman. After the party, they went to a friend’s house and lay down on the sofa.
“I took my shoes off,” Hank recalled, “and he got my panty hose off my legs. All the sudden, he grabbed the hose and stretched it and put it through my mouth and wrapped it behind my head. By now I was down on the floor on my stomach. My wig had fallen off and I was scared shitless. He lifted one foot at a time and tied my ankles behind my back, putting them up on my buttocks. When I tried to get my feet loose, it tightened the pantyhose in my mouth and it really hurt. He was an expert at tying things up.
“I thought he was going to kill me and I will take the terror of that night to my grave. I started making loud noises and he picked up an ashtray and hit me on the head to shut me up. It took seven or eight stitches to close the wound and I still have the scar. He grabbed my purse and took the money and ran from the house like a bat out of hell. I never saw him again at the bus station.”
A couple years after this tying-up incident, Rader was serving in the military when a gay man in Wichita named Walter Wirtz was murdered. A WPD detective on the vice squad knew Hank and asked him to be “keep your ear to the ground” — be an informant for the police on this killing. The detective took Hank to the crime scene right after the body had been removed. Semen had been left there, along with blood, lots of blood. Walter Wirtz had been stabbed nearly 40 times and left nude on his apartment floor, lying on his side with a dime placed on his hip, a detail the police had not made public. In the coming months and years, Hank asked around about the murder and heard something deeply disturbing: the man known only as Butch had been telling people about the dime left on Wirtz’s hip and saying he’d put it there because “that’s all that mother fucker was worth.”
When Hank took this information to the police, they told him the case was closed. They’d arrested one man in New Orleans for the slaying but he’d committed suicide. Another man had apparently confessed to the murder but then recanted. The murder never came to trial and as far as the WPD was concerned, they’d solved the homicide, but Hank never forgot what he’d heard.
Four decades later, on February 26, 2005, when Rader’s picture was broadcast throughout Wichita and the nation as the BTK suspect, Hank didn’t think much about it. Then the press began digging into Rader’s background and showing photographs of him as a teenager and young adult.
“When I saw those images,” Hank says, “I thought Holy Shit! My heart hit my stomach at about nine hundred miles per hour. That was a picture of Butch. You never forget someone who ties you up and terrorizes you. His face will never go away. I was absolutely shocked.”
After waiting a few weeks, Hank decided to go back to the WPD and tell him about the Walter Wirtz murder and the things he’d heard decades before. Media reports were stating that if Rader really was BTK, all the crimes he’d committed had taken place when Kansas did not have the death penalty so he’d never be eligible for execution. But if he’d murdered someone back in the 1960s, then he could die by lethal injection. If Rader had killed Walter Wirtz, Hank believed he should be executed.
Because Hank wasn’t an eyewitness to that long-ago homicide, the police told him his information wasn’t very important. Hank considered going to the Sedgwick County Detention Facility and confronting Rader himself with his suspicions, but in the end chose not to. He’d put all this behind him until he saw me on CNN and realized he still needed to speak about it.
“When we were young,” he says, “Butch was very arrogant and condescending. He was always telling me how straight he was, but I never saw him as a serial killer. Some other things must have happened to him between the time I knew him and when he evolved into BTK. I just couldn’t bring myself to go down to that jail and face him. Sometimes, you have to let things go.”
Some of this rant (and much more) will appear in the paperback edition of UNHOLY MESSENGER when it is published early next year.
August 23rd, 2006 at 6:18 am
Inteesting and scary! Look forward to your book.
Kelli
August 23rd, 2006 at 7:20 am
DAMN!
A WHOLE YEAR…TO WAIT!!
HURRY UP! [giggle]
Cricket
PS:
Why has this statement; “They told police back then but were dismissed or their statements ignored, by LE years ago”, suddenly started coming up in these high profile case[s] as a common thread?
THAT to me is the SCARY part…imagining all the lives that could have been saved if JUST ONE LE person had done their job CORRECTLY. Sad.
August 23rd, 2006 at 7:37 am
Forget the paperback…I couldn’t wait and just bought the hardback…giggle….now if it would just get here…like yesterday.
Cricket
August 23rd, 2006 at 7:53 am
Thanks for such a fascinating snippet of your book. It serves to remind us that even with crimes that seem unsolveable, someone, somewhere, knows something even if they don’t know exactly what they know, and it just takes that one connection to bring information to light.
August 23rd, 2006 at 8:15 am
Oh, man. I agree that the Otero murders must not have been the first time Rader/BTK had killed.
August 23rd, 2006 at 10:32 am
I agree also. There has to be more victims, both male and female. Hopefully one day we will learn the whole truth. The book sounds like a “must read”!
August 23rd, 2006 at 10:34 am
From what I have read in the past, killers like Rader don’t suddenly leap in with murders like those of the Oteros. I look forward to getting the book next year. I shall wait because the article on here will be in the paperback. I think this will be about the fifth or sixth book on my list just from reading this site.
Millie
August 23rd, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Wow, that is fascinating. Will definitely put your book on my must read list. Thanks!
August 23rd, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Dang it Millie!
NOW you tell me…geesh…
Ok I guess I’ll have to order the paperback next year ANYWAY! [giggle]
Cricket
August 23rd, 2006 at 2:38 pm
I really appreciated this post from Mr. Singular — his was the best book I’ve read so far on BTK, bar none.
I’ve never believed Rader started being violent with people with the Oteros, no matter what he said in his allocution(s). Hank’s story is unsurprising. And that’s kind of scary.
August 24th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
I’m with those who do not believe the Otero murders were Rader’s first. The book’s on orderr, Mr Singular! Thanks for all the others! Fiz. xxx
August 25th, 2006 at 10:00 am
I read a book by Singular seven years ago called Presumed Guilty: An Investigation into the JonBenet Ramsey case, the media and the culture of pornography when he was suggesting a child porn connection. An interesting read as well as his BTK book.
August 29th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
I might put your book cover on my page.Take a look at my page and you will see why.
November 1st, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Weird.And I lived in Wichita for a while at that time.Oy!
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:58 pm
JOHN DOUGLAS TOCOME OUT WITH HIS BTK BOOK IN OCT WHAT SLANT ON THE STORY DO YOU THINK HE WILL USE BOB
May 15th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
When I was a member of Cybersleuths website, I had posted a number of messages detailing the type of personality the BTK Strangler would be. His very possibly dressing in women’s clothing and performing sexual asphyxia upon himself when a victim was not available, etc.
It was, of course, no surprise to learn this was in fact the case when Dennis Rader was eventually identified and arrested. The States Summary of Evidence with various testimony by law enforcement personnel as well as from evidence such as photographs and Rader’s own testimoy.
I have spent a considerable amount of time researching this case from a behavioral perspective/comparative analysis and feel that there are a number of unsolved/cold cases in the Wichita area that were also most probably committed by Dennis Rader, including at least one homosexual murder case.
I am willing to go all out and state this as I am quite confident that my assessment of this particular offender’s potential is accurate.
Sincerely
Christen Allen Iman
California State University-Chico
July 9th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
All the weird incidents with Dennis Rader could take an entire book by themselves.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
i completely believe that btk not only killed before the oteros but he is probably responsible for the california zodiac killings. i have discoved over 50 commonalites between btk and zodiac. the hard part for me is physically placing btk in california during his killing spree as he was stationed in japan at the time, however leaves and repair assignments could easily put him there if i had access to raders travel records during that time. i am investigating the possibility of family or friends living in southern california during the time. im willing to discuss the facts i have uncovered that make btk a prime suspect in the zodiac killings at the very least. i have over nine months of heavy research invested.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:30 am
Hi Kat Self –
I would very much like to discuss with you the possibility of BTK being Zodiac. I too have done extensive research on this possibility.
How might I contact you?
Scribbles.
Crimescribbles@yahoo.com
November 1st, 2007 at 9:19 am
Good Morning, kat self and scribbles.
After reading both of your messages here, I would have to agree that there does seem to be quite a few similarities between BTK’s behaviors and behaviors expressed in the Zodiac case. But there are quite a few dissimilarities as well.
I would have to disagree that Dennis Rader had committed any of the known Zodiac homicides. A careful review of his whereabouts during the Zodiac crimes would, of course, disprove this paricular theory.
Not only proximity factors, but modus operandi and signature suggest no such link between either offender, Zodiac-BTK.
For the most part, I believe the “link” is simply an aberration, and coincidental. But there may be certain aspects pertaining to BTK crimes which may have been intentionally and consciously adopted from the earlier Zodiac crimes.
In otherwords, Rader may have read and incorporated certain elements of the Zodiac crimes into his own crimes. This is something noted when comparing the behaviors of a good number of serial killers who often read, study, fantasize, and adopt specific elementals of others crimes which appeal to their liking.
I believe the evidence is clear that Rader had been reading all sorts of things about murder and sexually motivated crimes beginning at an early age. He mentions other well known serial killers and therefore has a knowledge base in which to draw from.
Why not incorporate certain elements from the Zodiac case into his fantasies and crimes?
Sincerely
Christen
November 1st, 2007 at 11:55 am
dear christen, i believed btk to be a paint by numbers ,cowardly behind closed doors sicko killer at first .that’s what he wanted the cops to believe and still does. the zodiac killings are btk’s comforting ace in the hole now that he’sbeen captured. may i suggest you closely scrutinize the composite picture the cops did of zodiac to airforce era pix of rader and then i’ll further state my cASE.
November 2nd, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Good Day kat self,
Indeed, with all due respect, I have carefully scrutinized the possible link between both cases, and yet, I remain steadfast in my belief that there is no link to be found between the two.
I have yet to finalize my book which will somewhat touch upon this matter, and therefore I do not wish to divulge certain information I have been permitted to review concerning Dennis Rader’s prior military service record. But will contribute that Mr. Rader was not available during some of the known Zodiac crimes. I am a former Air Force Security Policeman, who at one time was also stationed at Kadena Air Base, Okinawa, as Rader had been temporarily assigned some years prior. And still have a few very good contacts. Some information has been made available to me through a source within the Air Force Office of Special Investigation. The 43rd Distric AFOSI Detachment is based at Kadena by the way. (I am in no suggesting that it was this particular detachment or any of it’s agents being my source though)
And again, I will agree that the similarities in the two cases are remarkable when one actually compares the two side by side. Except the link is not there. I’m sure you have given much thought to these similarities in your personal analysis, and this is why you feel as you do, but there exists no hard evidence whatsoever that Rader had either committed or had been involved in the Zodiac cases.
And it’s not just the lack of physical evidence or proximity factors that I arrive at this conclusion. I have carefully evaluated the psychological aspect of both cases, each offender’s particular motivational/psychosexual requirements. And can say without a doubt, we are dealing with two very distinct personality types here.
There has been and will continue to be quite a bit of debate concerning who the Zodiac may or may not have been. Each agency involved seems to have focused on a particular subject or two, or felt none of the subjects being looked at were in fact, Zodiac.
There have been a number of theories suggested concerning where the Zodiac lived, worked, etc. If you have any faith in geographic profiling and analysis concerning offender spatial decisions/cognitive mapping anlaysis, etc., then you would probably agree that the Zodiac crimes relate to the offender’s home base being in the city of Vallejo, CA, not in San Francisco, not in Santa Rosa, Napa, Reno, NV, etc.. Yet, many adept law enforcement investigators are reluctant to take such analysis into account. They are relying on their abilities at solving cases through gut instinct and hard physical evidence. Each is trained differently and approaches the case from a different perspective. I believe it is these individual differences as well as personal bias and prejudice which has lead to the the offender having not been identified.
I hope you will not take my message here as being belittling or otherwise harsh, as this is not my intent whatsover. I am somewhat bias myself as I had spent seven years researching the Zodiac murders and have been exposed to quuite a bit through this.
Sincerely
Christen
Chico, CA
November 2nd, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Christen, I have taken no offense at your reply.You have done nothing but point out the major hurdle of physically placing Rader at the known Zodiac crime scenes which I saw coming at the beginning of my research.I personally believe Zodiac was never found because his intellegence was over-estimated. The clues he left were no more cunning than B.T.K.’s inane puzzles or sick attempts at humor. Imagine a youthful single man bent on beginning a series of killings who had to first establish that he could not only do the deed but be effective in escaping reprisal. This resulted in his first attempts being more executions carried out in military precision than the fantasy murders he desired. It wasn’t until September of 1969 that he came into his own. In that assault he wore an executioner’s hood (fantasy role-playing),told his victims he was on the run and only wanted money and their car (sound like B.T.K.?), bound his victims and stabbed them face down (other than the stabbing this scenario was repeated in all B.T.K.’s crimes), and left failing to kill the male (this too B.T.K. did.) Now fast forward to 1971. Before this game was high stakes but with only freedom to loose,now our killer is a family man,he must adjust his killing style to a less messy mode to avoid detection (stranulation). He wants to savor his California victories which he has bragged he won’t be caught for, therefore he ‘buries’ the Zodiac personna and erects a new killer’s image complete with a secret signature (go figure). Granted the similarities could possibly come from studying serial killers but at a point one has to say too many coincidences, too many parallels. If I’m wrong on this, I’m wrong, but more on this possibility needs to be examined.
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Christen, P.S. I forgot to mention Zodiac called to apprise police of his Sept. ‘69 crimes shortly after committing them. The call was placed on a payphone.Also no car was mentioned for the assailant. Zodiac walked to and from the scene. This is the same m.o. as B.T.K. confessed to.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Good Day, kat self.
As a response to your last post, I would like to further discuss the issue we seem to be devided on as I feel I would not be properly addressing the issue without at least trying to convince you to look at the situation form a strictly analytical perspective.
Although I cannot prove that you are incorrect in your assessment, I am hoping you will at least allow what I have to say some absorbtion.
I only say this as I am myself, personally satisfied, that there is no such connection to be found between these two series.
I have extensivley researched serial killers and their crimes for nearly 25 years now. I have a database containing over 750 serial killers in which to draw from. Not to mention another 135 serial rapists, rapists and sexually motivated murderers where only one victim had emerged before the offender was identified. I am deeply involved in the area of Comparative CrimeScene Analysis and Linkage Analysis through signature element(s) which are almost always present at the scene/with the victim’s remains. What I look for is that which the offender requires in order to fulfill his inner needs and why the crimes are occurring and how they will likely evolve and/or escalate.
I can tell you this much, that from a simple comparative psychoanalysis of both crimes, the Zodiac and the BTK, there is no doubt in my mind that these are two distinct personality types who simply share some commonalities in their methods/scripting.
As an example;
1. Both sent taunting letters/commub=nications to police and media. (The instances of serial killers doing such a thing is not a common occurrence in itself)
2. The use of word clues and puzzels (game playing behaviors)
3. The intentional/unintentional misspelling of words and unusual syntax/sentence construction
4. Various methods of killing or use of various implements of control such as knives, gun, rope
5. The taking of various personal items belonging to the victim such as watch, rings, jewelry, keys and clothing
6. The taking of an article of clothing belonging to the victim and returning it via the mail
7. Sketching
8. Poems
9. The use of multiple-layered copies to prevent identification of typewriter brand/model or specific copy machine utilized
10. The significance of a localized college or University library
11. Statememts made to victims when confronting them such as in the Zodiac case, that he would not harm them that he just needed some money and their car to get away as he was wanted by police for a crime he committed in Montana, whereas in the bright case, BTK stated he would not wish to harm them but needed some money and their car to get away to New York as he was wanted in California.
12. he had the male victim bind the female victim in both cases, before tying the male victim himself.
13. That the male victim survived the assault whereas the female did not
Etc., etc..
I realize these may seem to suggest a very similar scripting between the two cases. But that’s all it appears to have been.
We know who BTK was, is. We know more about his inner workings than I believe he himself knows.
We can now take what we have learned concerning Dennis Rader’s life and his needs and compare them with what we have learned concerning Zodiac and his needs. They are not the same minds at work. They both share some commonalities for certain. But so does a good number of other known serial killers. They simply have different psychosexual requirements and this is due to conditioning and specific paraphilias.
You wrote; “I personally believe Zodiac was never found because his intelligence was over-estimated. The clues he left were no more cunning than BTK’s insane puzzles..”
I completely agree with this statement.
You also wrote; “His first attempts being more executions carried out in military precision than the fantasy murders he desired.”
“He wants to savor his California victories which he has bragged he won’t be caught for, therefore he “buries” the Zodiac persona and erects a new killer’s image complete with a secret signature.”
This is highly improbable you should understand. They simply do not destroy the image they have ernestly created of themself and erect another more potent one in it’s place.Their fantasies and the psychological needs are almost always a constant. They may change their methods for one reason or the other such as to elude identification or because they have found a more suitable means to accomplish their goal. They may change to suit newer or evolved fantasies, for experimentation, etc., but they themselves do not alter the image they need to see of themself, that certain self-image.
To be quite honest here, without giving glory to either Dennis Rader or Zodiac, as both were absolutely cowards and simply lucky for the most part, Zodiac was in my opinion, somewhat more intelligent than BTK. Although I’d be pressed to tell you which was more of a coward.
Christen Iman
Chico, CA
November 3rd, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Hi Kat, you should get ahold of me. I believe Dennis Rader is connected to the Zodiac case.
November 4th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Christen, You say my theory is highly improbable.Please consider the possibility that Zodiac is’nt as hard-headed as you are. If the people solving the horrendous crimes you profess to hold so much expertise at are as closed-minded as you are it’s no wonder crimes are going unsolved. You’re using predictable behavior to look into the mind of one bent on carring out unpredictable acts. Are you saying Zodiac’s mind is so intrenched in maddness that he has lost the personal freedom of choice? First you dimissed my theory with a vague alibi, now you’re saying profiling makes the connection impossible. I say the families of the victims involved deserve even the thinnest threads of possibilities being explored. You have lead me to believe I am speaking to FBI, If I am please check into the Lake Tahoe Sierra Club killing of 1971 Zodiac bragged of. I have a hunch the newly wed Raders will be on the guest list for that year.
November 4th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Hello kat self.
I will comment on a few things here as I believe you may have taken some of my statements in the wrong way? And again, my intentions are only to try and persuade you to look at the situation from my perspective, not to demean or otherwise ridicule you, or to suggest that I am any more knowledgeable than you as a researcher in the area of serial crimes. I contributed my years of indepth research as well as my database for the purpose of showing that I do have much study and resources behind my statements, and not to tout myself as being an expert or that because of this, I am anymore insightful, or correct, than any other who does not have such resources to draw from. You are right, I am stiffed necked in my belief. That can sometimes be a good thing, and yes, also a bad thing. I have not simply arrived at the conclusions I have because I have never taken the time, made the effort, to properly coompare these two cases. Because I have. And if there had been any possible link between the two, than I would have most assuredly found it. I am much too thorough to allow anything to escape my analysis. I do not simply appraoch the situation with a one-track mind and attempt to make the crimes fit my idea of what had transpired. I look at the crimes for what they are. There’s no mystery to the Zodiac case, no matter what many may believe. As you said, this man (or most probably, two men working in tandom) are probably the easiest types to understand concerning motive and method. I am actually more facinated by law enforecemnet’s inability to identify the subject(s)than I am with the subject(s)themselves.
As far as my using predictable beahvior to look into the mind of one bent on committing unpredictable crimes, this is not so.
Although statiistics are often a very useful tool in evaluating an offender’s potential when he appears to share some quite similar characteristics with other known offenders such as victim type/attributes, chronologics, manner of suspect-victim interaction and location/disposal site, method
of control/restraint and cause of death, etc., it would be a fatal error to deduce that these men will follow the same path. They are in fact different individuals having needs-specific requirements. And although I do take into consideration statistical data in my assessments, I do not generate an offender profile having such simply because they appear to be similar and therefore must be similar in most or all aspects. I look at each offender in his own light. The methods he employs and the manner in which he interacts with his victim as well as successive victims will tell his personal story, no one elses. What he has left at the croime scene(s) is the end result of what it all means to him, it’s his story and he’s telling to whoever will listen, to whoever will see his art. And when he’s a “Hider”, the story stays within his own mind, not to be shared with the outside world.
Zodiac was not insane whatsoever. He was not mad.
Zodiac was the type of personality who was simply put, a selfish and self-absorbed nobody who needed to feel superior as he lacked recognition. He was one of the biggest cowards one can note when reviewing hundreds of his kind. He wasn’t a highly intelligent individual as he wanted everyone to believe with his silly ciphers and puzzles. He was simply a slightly above average, insecure and sexually mixed-up, socially inept deviant. That’s my call!
Could you please explain what your statement: “..You dismissed my theory with a vague alibi..”
And profiling, just as statistical compilations are merely tools. They do not hold any special key to anything alone. But when used in conjunction with other methods of analysis, they are very helpful in narrowing down the proper suspect pool.
Yes. The families of victims deserve anything and everything an investigation can bring them in order to have some closure, I agrre.
No. I am not with the FBI. Thank You for the complement?
Although I have researched and profiled a few noteworthy FBI behavioralists over time such as John Douglas, Robert Ressler, Clint Van Zandt, Candice DeLong, Greg McCrary, Joe Navaro, Mark Young, Roger Depue, Peter Smerick, Roy Hazelwood, Bill Tafoya, etc.. I don’t always agree with their assessments. They are not always in tune with the situation, but they are not mind readers or psychics either, simply human beings having a good degree of intelligence, knowledge, and insight.
Sincerely
Christen Iman
Chico, CA
November 4th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Christen, Let me take a deep breath and regroup. In your commonalities you didn’t mention how Rader matched the Zodiac physical description (height, weight, etc.) Nor did you see how much the facial drawing of Zodiac resembles younger pictures of Rader. I sir will continue my research until I have proof or the same personally satisfactory result of impossibility that you hold. I thank you for your time.
November 4th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
It was my pleasure to discuss this theory with you, kat self.
And even though we are both similarly strong willed and determined to find our own answers, it’s actually quite refreshing to be able to do so without heated debate or animosity. Thank you for your consideration my friend. I hope you and I can continue to debate this issue.
Please feel free to contact me via email anytime you may wish to further your case, and I will at least afford you a good ear..
Sincerely
Christen
christen_allen_iman@yahoo.com
November 5th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
scribbles, you can contact me via e mail at jimmy_cantrell_bigtimer@yahoo.com thanks kat
November 5th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
thanks Kat, I will be emailing you tomorrow, just saw your reply to me, and is late tonight.
thanks
scribbles
December 9th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Horoscop
August 24th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
As much as Rader enjoyed bragging about his murders and describing many of the horrid details, why wouldn’t he take credit for other additional murders, had he committed them? He wanted to be famous.